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pre crossflow blocks 1500 - Page 2
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Thread: pre crossflow blocks 1500

  1. #21
    Sonic tested a batch of blocks today and thought I would I show a good example of how bad the core shift can be, it also shows how clean the blocks come back from Redi Strip, expensive but the only thing that gets rid of the rust.

    This block is actually a 711M but it happens to all castings. The block was sleeved, poorly, as it had split number 4 and has had one of those good cast pistons fall apart in 3. The bore size with the sleeves removed is 84mm.

    This block would have been right on the limit at 83.5mm.

    Sonic testing is cheap compared to a re-block
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Scituate, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
    Posts
    144
    HI Paul

    Great post. So this block had 3mm bored out of it or near .060 inch on each cylinder bore wall. Cylinder 4 is showing .098 on the Right side and .197 inch on the Left, its tough to see with the cable in the way?
    Cylinder 2 shows .069 on the Left and .224 on the Right? Were all cores shifted in the same direction? How many blocks were tested and how many were out this much? Am I reading this correctly and was this the worst block (other than the cracked wall) and with the knowledge you have now, could this have saved the block by offset boring the holes correctly?

    Gary

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by garyeanderson View Post
    HI Paul

    Great post. So this block had 3mm bored out of it or near .060 inch on each cylinder bore wall. Cylinder 4 is showing .098 on the Right side and .197 inch on the Left, its tough to see with the cable in the way?
    Cylinder 2 shows .069 on the Left and .224 on the Right? Were all cores shifted in the same direction? How many blocks were tested and how many were out this much? Am I reading this correctly and was this the worst block (other than the cracked wall) and with the knowledge you have now, could this have saved the block by offset boring the holes correctly?

    Gary
    No.1 is .098" on the right, really it's closer to 4 o'clock, that's the thing with this probe I can scan the entire bore, then 9 o'clock was the thinest point at .197".

    No.3 was the worst bore with .069" on the right and .224" at 9.

    When the cores are off to one side or diagonal yes they go the same way nearly every time. If the shift is front/rear it's a lottery but usually 1/2 are forward and 3/4 are back.

    This block could not have been saved with offset boring, I won't offset any other way than front/rear and only .020" at that. This block will be saved using new stepped sleeves with the sleeve wall thickness ending up at .100".

    This was the worst block by far today and not common to see with a 711M, 681/691 xflow blocks are usually this bad though. There were 4 other blocks today with the best being 681 L block that would go 86mm except for number 2 being a whisker thin to do it, will be fine at 85mm, it didn't have the grading on the front face not sure if it had been machined off or it wasn't there to begin with.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Scituate, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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    Hi Paul

    Thank you for the quick reply, it early morning and I was looking at the block wrong (backwards). Anyway your postsand info is always helpful to me and others.

    Thanks again
    Gary

  5. #25
    Forgot to mention the L block would have been risky at 86mm also due to oil way offset, .065" in 2 and .097" in 3 with the bore at 84mm. 86mm would only see .025" at the oil way.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Scituate, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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    I sure hope that Ford Racing gets this new block right so that this "hunting" for a good block is just a bad memory. Even if you have to pay a grand, its got to be better than buying tired old blocks which are hard to get anyway and all of the work involved in culling out the bad and marginal blocks to find the "right' one ffor that special project.

  7. #27
    Never rains, then it pours

    http://www.davidgathercole.co.uk/index.html

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Scituate, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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    144
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    I've not heard of David before, Thats what great about this site is you never know when you will learn something new.
    That said the engine page has some photos of the iron block and the alloy one too.
    http://www.davidgathercole.co.uk/engines.html

    ?24,500 (plus VAT) for the FVA/FVC engine kit is a bit of a stretch for my Cortina budget but it really would look right at home in a mk1 engine bay. It would be even better in an 64 Estate.

    the Iron block has a 681F6015 - A
    I wonder if there will be lifters and push rod holes in the deck?



    The alloy block is interesting as its got KAM main caps on it,
    KAM is Dave Abrahams? connection? who knows...




  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,797
    Pro-Gram

    have been making main caps for Kents for quite a while now

    although not in their online catalog
    that i could see

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by garyeanderson View Post
    I sure hope that Ford Racing gets this new block right so that this "hunting" for a good block is just a bad memory. Even if you have to pay a grand, its got to be better than buying tired old blocks which are hard to get anyway and all of the work involved in culling out the bad and marginal blocks to find the "right' one ffor that special project.
    I hope so too Gary. Looking back at that prototype block that was at PRI, I have my doubts. The bores are not siamesed and the oil passage looks to be, well you can't really tell what's going on with the cores.
    Fingers crossed.

    Lee

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    These folks are doing FVC components too (and BDA, LTC)

    http://www.sasengineering.co.uk/index.html

    Gee, if these guys would get together there would be some economies of scale to help out us poor hobbyists.

    Lee

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,797
    just found a strange casting block
    i have never seen before here in Oz

    116E 6015





    .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jewels; 28th February 2010 at 06:34 PM.

  13. #33
    Pushrod Guest
    Jules, this was the original 1500 motor, 1962 to 1963 ???, then it went to 120E.
    You will notice if you strip a 120E (standard motor) that it will have 116e conrods, crank etc.

    Cheers Gary.

  14. #34
    P1010001 (2)..jpgP1010004..jpgP1010003..jpgP1010002 (2)..jpgP1010002..jpg

    This is the block from earlier in this thread now bored to take the new sleeves, thought some of you may be interested in what the inside of the blocks look like.

  15. #35
    Swampy Guest
    [QUOTE=Paul T;15123
    This is the block from earlier in this thread now bored to take the new sleeves, thought some of you may be interested in what the inside of the blocks look like.[/QUOTE]

    Hi Paul,
    Are the liners press fit in or do you attach them in some way?
    Cheers

  16. #36
    .001" clearance sitting on the step in the bottom of the bore, lots of 620 Loctite then Hard Blok block fill.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
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    82
    I set one up like that a few years ago Paul (I have done a couple now). I assume you are using Flow-cast? it was a very expensive excersize.

    The bores went bellows like after a couple of seasons but they were at 85mm

  18. #38
    When I break through like that I fit sleeves that are finished bored and honed at a minimum of .120"/3mm, Ford's recommended minimum is .100"/2.5mm. The loctite seals them up no problem and then the Hard blok is there for extra support. http://www.hardblok.com/

    Having to fit thick wall sleeves is becoming the rule not the exception, so many blocks have flaws and/or have already been bored that it is rare to get a 120E block that will o 83.5mm with .100" wall thickness.

    It's not a cheap process, sleeves $200 if it's an off the shelf size $500 for customs, bore the block to take the sleeves up to $400 depending on how many cuts are required, $220 to bore and hone the sleeves and $100 for hard blok. I'd rather go through this than have a cranky customer with a split bore.

    block fill 1..jpgblock fill..jpg

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    hamilton NEW ZEALAND
    Posts
    9
    cool looking block and boring done there but must ask whats the cooling like since it looks like its mostly cut of buy that hardblok stuff thought i would ask as im no engine builder etc cheers and love all the info about blocks very interesting
    fords the best f**k the rest

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    south of bristol
    Posts
    2

    pre/crossflow

    Hi all i have just bought a anglia fitted with a 116e pre crossflow engine, i see from the threads that this is the early 1500 block, any changes been made to it before fitting to the cortina.
    any weak spots that i need to address when i strip it down.

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