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pre crossflow blocks 1500
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Thread: pre crossflow blocks 1500

  1. #1
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    Post pre crossflow blocks 1500

    while im not an expert ... so please correct me if im wrong

    i thought id post some info that i know

    on which block is which

    to identify, look for the raised casting numbers on the passenger side

    (RHD) low part of the engine

    there will be 2 parts to the numbers/letters the last 4 stay the same 6015

    its only the first 4 numbers that are significant



    • 116E - Earliest 1500cc based 5 bearing crankshaft


    • 120E - Most common found around found in Cortina 1500, GTs, Lotus Cortina. Can also have 'L' cast into it under the drivers side engine mount. So keep it if you have one.


    • 122E - This is a real early casting found in Lotus and some GTs very hard to find these now as they would most likely be worn out


    • 701M - This is the one to have. If you can find one hold onto it. Will also have 'L' cast into it under the drivers side engine mount


    • 681F - Found in later model Cortinas Mk11. Lotus Cortina will again, have the 'L' cast into it under the drivers side engine mount


    • 2731 - The last of the 1500s can over bore to 83.5mm

    Another casting to look for is a low 'T' number (1, 2 or 3) found near the distributor we think it means which box the block of the form/mold it came from
    a mythical number
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jewels; 1st March 2010 at 07:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    middle northern Melbourne
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    I'll try and dig up some of the things I have read about this mysterious 'T' number. Like I said in another topic, there seems to be a great deal of controversy regarding this number...
    www.cortina-mk1.com
    Contact me for parts.

  3. #3
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    Another misconception is that all Lotus Cortina's should have an 'L' block. This is not true. The 'L' block was only introduced for the MK11 Lotus Cortina. MK1 Lotus Cortina blocks do not usually have any casting number on them , ie 120E etc. These were usually ground off. My understanding is the MK1 Lotus Cortina block was just a graded 1500cc block. The grading mark is usually stamped on the waterpump end face of the block , and I think the correct mark to look for is LX , but I'd need to check that.

  4. #4
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    yes there certainly is a lot of talk about 'L' blocks

    but your right im sure that a lotus cortina could indeed be bought from the factory with a common

    120E-6015 casting

  5. #5
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    brain farts happen, over and over

    This topic usually generates a lot of interest. There are 3 different height blocks with the 1500 being in the middle with a deck height of 7.78 inches. the other two were the 1100/1300cc at 7.12 and the 1600cc engine at 8.21 inch. Bore centers are all 98mm (why this has a metric dimension I don't know, but is probabably due to the machinery used in the manufacture of them). The distance of the water spaces between the bores seems to be around .182 inch (4.6 mm). the center cross drilling for the oil feed to the main oil gallery is 5/16 or around 8mm I believe. Some of the selected blocks for Cosworth did not have the cross feed drilled and had the oil brought around externally and used a 4 port dry sump pump. These blocks could be bored to 87 mm and were special 701 blocks, I am not aware of earlier blocks with ths feature. My friend has one from when he raced a BDJ (1100cc cosworth) and here are a few photos. This block was never drilled for the cross feed.
    I don't know what the T numbers were but I wouldn't go out of my way looking for one. I believe that they were just a numbered set of core patterns used to keep all of the core parts as a matched set, but thats just my guess. The other thing I have heard is that after each casting the T number was incremented (see the sloted screw heads on each side of the Tx) to keep track of the number of times the core patterns were used so the the cores could be referbed before they became out of spec and started to cast up rejected blocks. Like I said, I don't know so believe what you like.

    It doesn't look like anything special, just a regular 701 block until you look at the top rear motor mount bolt hole. its be milled flat and drilled for a BSP fitting. you can also see the water jacket spacing I was talking about

    Without the BSP fitting you can see how it was drilled, I think its just a 5/16 inch hole (from my bad memory) that is drilled into the mail oil gallery.

    This it the tortured oil path of the Lotus twin cam, if you look at just the block than that is the same as 1500 pre crossflow.


    With the Cross feed oil gallery drilled, Toby's pre crossflow is about as large as you can go at 85.4mm safely verses 87 without. There were larger bores on the cast iron blocks but these were even more special in that the cylinder bores were milled out entirerly and a set of siamesed cylinder bores were furness brazed into the emptied block, these could be bored to 88.9mm
    ================================================== ======
    If yo do the math,
    96mm - 85.4mm = 10.6mm, now take away the cross feed drilling at 8mm and you are left with 2.6mm devided by 2 or 1.3 mm or around .050 inch which is getting a little thin if it is drilled perfectly centered. You can alway offset bore cylinders 2 and 3 a little but then you are pushing the other side of the bore.

    Edited on January 9th 2010 to fix either my bad memory or the poor imperial to metric conversion. Toby rightly pointed out the error and its good to see folk checking the stuff I write

    Gary
    ================================================== ======
    Last edited by garyeanderson; 10th January 2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: brain fart

  6. #6
    Great post Gary - They should have called the Lotus tripple cam

    Very usefull!! I didn't realise I was so close to the central oil gallery - I was mainly worried about the water jackets, my rods are very close to the longditudinal oil gallery, (read hit) and I internally sleeved them.
    12.58 and still looking......

  7. #7
    i've just been given a spare head with T7 on it

    the one on my car is T3

    what do these mean?

  8. #8
    bloke this way.told me the cast numbers are related to the T ie t1 t2 t3 t4
    being the number out the cast at 25 they started again
    i gave him three 711m blocks he chose the highest number saying it would be the strongest cast..
    dont no why metal aint my thing

  9. #9
    Hi All,

    I have a little question on this block topic. I have a 1600 engine
    which has on it 711m 6015, it also has cast on to it between the
    engine mounting bolts two X X and two straight cast lines under them.This is an Aussie motor i got here as a complete engine. All i can see on the head is L1 stamped on the top of the rear exhaust port.
    I've not seen( XX ) before on the UK 711M blocks that i can remember. I have 4 UK engines i bought with me all 711m blocks none have this.

    There are other casting numbers but i can't remember them!!.

  10. #10
    Hi Jewels what capacity would a 2731 block bored to 83.5mm be & how many thou over would it be ?

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    warren thats not a question thats for me
    but other will be able to answer that one

    guessing 060 over
    its either gotta stay metric or imperial

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by warren View Post
    Hi Jewels what capacity would a 2731 block bored to 83.5mm be & how many thou over would it be ?
    Bore of 83.5 is 2.5 mm more than the stock 81mm (~3.19 inch)
    2.5 mm x .03937 = .09825 or 98.425 thousanths of a inch

    Stroke of the 1500 crank is 72.75 mm or 2.864 inch

    83.5 ..83.5
    ---- X ---- X Pi or 3.14159265 X 72.75 X4 = 1593.5 cc
    2 .........2

    or

    one half the bore diameter squared times Pi times the stroke times the number of sylinders = the displacement

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by garyeanderson View Post
    Bore centers are all 98mm (why this has a metric dimension I don't know, but is probabably due to the machinery used in the manufacture of them).


    With the Cross feed oil gallery drilled, Toby's pre crossflow is about as large as you can go at 85.4mm safely verses 87 without.

    If yo do the math,
    98mm - 85.4mm = 12.6mm, now take away the cross feed drilling at 8mm and you are left with 4.6mm devided by 2 or 2.3 mm or around .090 inch which is getting a little thin if it is drilled perfectly centered. You can alway offset bore cylinders 2 and 3 a little but then you are pushing the other side of the bore.
    Hi Gary, I noticed your quoted bore spacing is actually 2mm out. The true bore spacing is 96mm - (Actually 96.01 - 3.780") A funny imperial size which was handy for the change over to metric on the later crossflow.

    Just a fluke?? I doubt it!

    You have made me nervous about the centre oil gallery I must say, but so far no problems - well, no oil related ones
    12.58 and still looking......

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by warren View Post
    Hi Jewels what capacity would a 2731 block bored to 83.5mm be & how many thou over would it be ?

    83.5 is .100" oversize and a lottery on anything other than a graded "L" block.

    I bought a sonic tester years ago after getting sick of paying someone to do 12 point bore checks that wasn't accurat anyway. I bought an NDT 110 with hammer probe, no you don't hit anything, it's because the probe is mount in a handle and allows you to scan the bores quickly.

    As for 2731's I've tested some that will go to 85mm and other that will just see 82.5, my advice pay someone to test it, should only cost $100-150 to have done, I charge $110 if the block is clean and $132 if I need to hone the bores to get a reading.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Hi Gary, I noticed your quoted bore spacing is actually 2mm out. The true bore spacing is 96mm - (Actually 96.01 - 3.780") A funny imperial size which was handy for the change over to metric on the later crossflow.

    Just a fluke?? I doubt it!

    You have made me nervous about the centre oil gallery I must say, but so far no problems - well, no oil related ones
    Toby I'll worry you a little bit more then, of the hundreds of blocks I've tested the gallery has been centered between the bores about 10% of the time.

    You don't really need to worry though 60-70psi isn't that high as far as pressure goes and if it was going to break through it should have done it by now.

    As for off setting bores 1 and 2 need to go forward most of the time and 3 and 4 back however there is no hard and fast rule.

    The worst blocks by far are 681 and 691 crossflow which rerely will go past 82.5 due to core shift diagonally which you can't off set bore.

  16. #16
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    wrong again, let the beating continue

    Hi Toby and Paul

    This is a re-write on The Lotuselan.net forum.
    http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan...t19368-15.html
    where what I wrote was correct (well, maybe, no one proof reads my trash over there).

    I guess it was a bit early for me to be doing metric to imperial conversions.

    There is another post that is mentioned and that is about larlg bore blocks
    http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan...ck-t17907.html

    Please take a look and if you find any discrepencies let me know and I'll fix them. I can edit those posts , I think...

    Gary

    p.s. - I edited the post so now it reads like there is even less room left for the cross feed oil passage on your block Toby. Thanks again Gary
    Last edited by garyeanderson; 10th January 2010 at 10:55 AM.

  17. #17
    Thanks Paul and Gary - you both seem very experienced.

    So if mine were to start cracking then I assume I could block off the central drilling and re-route the oil around the block externally?
    12.58 and still looking......

  18. #18
    You can it's little bit harder working with Cortina engine mounts though. The 2 options are modify the front gallery plug hole or in through the side which requires a lot more work and some cast iron welding.

  19. #19
    Very interesting and good to know there's a "get out of jail" position
    12.58 and still looking......

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Scituate, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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    Helllllllllllllllllp

    More links on Kent Blocks, they have been posted elsewhere but I don't want to search to hard. Folks seem to ask the same questions and I think all the links and info should be rounded up and listed in ONE place so people can find it. There should be a sticky or a single area on this forum where all KENT block and Head info is placed with a sticky index or README FIRST or some way to direct folks to ask the questions in one topic so the answers are not scattered all over in 30 different replies.

    Bob Woolner's site
    www.lotus-cortina.com has a great article on Kent blocks

    http://www.lotus-cortina.com/library/block/blocks.htm

    this formula ford site has a good one too

    http://thekentlives.com/thekentengine.htm

    there are typos in both and you kind of have to know what you are reading.

    more Ford info on part numbers

    Google search on "Ford apart numbers"
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...2&aq=f&aqi=&oq=
    This give lots of info, you have to interpret it a bit for the english parts but a lot of it is usefull.
    http://www.classicmustang.com/decoding_part_numbers.htm
    http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/FordTechData.html


    http://www.ford-y-block.com/fordpartnumbers.htm

    A few common parts
    Engine block 6015
    Cylinder head 6090
    Intake manifold 9425
    Distributor 12127
    Camshaft 6250
    Crankshaft 6303
    Connecting rods 6205

    when all else fails go to google and search

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=f&aqi=g-m1&oq=

    then open and read each one, if you want to know then go and find it because its out there someplace.

    Gary

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