Newby Non-Mk1 Owner

[RetroMk2]

Hi everyone.

My name's David and have just purchased a 3/70 Mk2 which has so far received a full panel restoration.

Now I know it isn't a Mk1, but after looking at many mk1's this one was just too good to pass up in its 99% rust free & condition & 100% metal(given I got another complete car also for parts!!).

I do have plans for the car, but for now I will just concentrate on restoration and assembly of the catory bits and pieces which make up the body & interior while I make up my mind as to what I can legally fit. The plan is to stay relatively true as to FoMoCo design, but with the modern flavour of injection & turbo's.

Possibly transplants, and I guess you have heard them all before include SR20DET, CA18DET, 13BT, 4AG(T)E, ZETEC etc and the list goes on.

I'll be chatting with an engineer up here in Brissy in the next couple of weeks to work out my options. The goal is to have a car that has good road manners, but can also run a respectable time at Willowbank (plus the childhood dream of possibly having a car pop a front wheel on launch :) )

I guess my questions at this stage are mainly concerning the differences between the MK1 & 2 in terms of:

Engine bay dimensions;
Engine mount location;
Crossmember design and location;
Trans tunnel dimensions (I understand mine originally ran an auto but not 100% sure - please correct me if I am wrong).I guess if these are similar, then some of the info on this site will become invaluable.

Below are a couple of pics of where I am at now.......

Cheers, Dave.

Arrow straight
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/MkII%20Cortina/DSCF0971.jpg

Shiny!!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/MkII%20Cortina/DSCF0974.jpg

Blank Canvas...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/MkII%20Cortina/DSCF0975.jpg

[jewels]

hi and welcome retromk2
you have a good plan there and are going about things in the right order
the car is certainly a very good example to start with

with doing any of those conversions you mentioned the main area needing work for your car is the trans tunnel.

any later model gearbox 5 speed or otherwise are always much larger than the old cortina boxes .. needing widening to be done.... if your car was an automatic well thats a great help!
automatics are the choice to have as they required a larger tunnel from factory.. and usually only minor mods are needed to fit a 5 speed type gearbox

as far as in the engine bay is concerned similar treatment to the mk1s can be done as on our page here (http://www.cortina-mk1.com/sr20.php) except you have a lot more space to work with than in mk1 :)

one thing to remember when doing a conversion is to note on the new engine is where the sump bulge is ....if it is towards the front the conversion will be more straight forward.

[RetroMk2]

Thanks Jewels - that's great!

Any thoughts on the factory engine mounts or gearbox crossmembers as to whether they are comparable between the two models?

I had another look at the car last night and found no hole in the floor for a shifter - leading me to believe that this was maybe once a column shift car.

Dave.

[jewels]

ok dave
well the autos were column shift :)
but looking a the photos you posted its hard to say...

as for engine mounts the factory towers holding the original mounts will have to go

from there you build up the new ones to suit your application

[Bertil]

There are bolts for both brake and clutch master and the tunnel looks to small for beeing an auto car. Probably it have had a bench seat and a columnshift manual box since the hand brake have been under the dash and not on the tunnel.
The shell looks REALLY good. Have you done some work to remove the battery tray? Also it is a heavy duty shell having the stenghening plates on the innerwings arond the strut mounts.

Is this car a super or something? I see there are holes for the trim on the backplate, or is that trim fitted to all Aussie cars? Here (Sweden) we have them only on the 1600E, GT and Lotus.

[jewels]

bertil

all aussie cars as far as im aware were heavy duty
as i have never seen any without those plates

[Bertil]

bertil

all aussie cars as far as im aware were heavy duty
as i have never seen any without those plates


Ok, anyone that have got some heavy duty NOS Ford panels to send over?

I like your ideas RetroMk2, keeping the outside and fit new "internals"!

[jewels]

yes bertil dr danger has informed us of whats needed

we havent forgotten

[RetroMk2]

Thread revival :)

Doing a bit more research on engine conversion now that the rest of the car is planned and underway.......

What has caught my eye of late are the MX5 1.8 and 2.0 NA engines, both with the option of a 5 or 6 speed tranny. I hear that both engined are quite free revving and may handle a little boost after engineering and registration...

I thought that this would be a nice streetable option, but am unsure of dimensions as I have not had a chance to get to the wreckers yet to measure them up.

Any thoughts/experience/opinions on this, or has it been done before to anyone's knowledge?

Cheers, Dave.

[jewels]

yea retro
these engines we have looked at ourselves they are a nice looking thing and rwd

can be sort quiet cheaply now
i forget the actually name or designation now

should be a good thing :)

[RetroMk2]

Thanks!

I am thinking I have to head out soon and get some measurements. From what i hear both are quite tall engines, and a side by side comparo of the escort 4 speed and 5/6 speed mx5 boxes are not that much different (shifter is slightly further back, and tunnel massaging rather than cutting should be the go (as I have the auto tunnel, and no hole cut yet). <-CLICKY-> (http://www.rsmotorsport.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=467&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=168ea5115b1027e1b6ec0916b7898691)

More research to be had i think.

Will let you know how I go....

Dave.

[Dr Danger]

The yanks really get these motors wound up. I believe turbo kits for them are a reasonable sort of proposition. Off the shelf and not megabucks. Not sure of quality but sounds like your doing plenty of research anyway. Can't see how it would be a bad thing.

[RetroMk2]

Well a couple of people have done it!

This example is of a Mk1 over in NZ with the B6 1600 and mx5 gearbox - assuming 5 speed (I would be looking at the BP 1800 and 6 speed - the BP isslightly longer than the B6, but then the Mk2's bay is bigger than the Mk1's). I'm trying to contact the fella to see what he did to get it all in there. Looking promising though.

A couple of specs he mentioned:

Mazda B6 1600 DOHC
Engine & Gearbox
MX5 Dash Gauges
MX5 Steering Column
MX5 Head Lights
Electric Windows
One Piece Glass

4 Wheel Disc
Callipers MX5 - Rear
Volvo 4pot - Front
Mazda B1600 Ute Brake Booster
RX3 Master Clinder

Pics below.......

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/44557915_full.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/44557969_full.jpg

[Dr Danger]

Dam they have some trick things over there!

[jewels]

yes thats a nice thing

retro if you mange to contact him
i would be interested in posting his conversion pictures on my web site

if he is interested...

[RetroMk2]

Hmmm - information is a little hard to come by on this....

A Mk2 I found with the 1.8L (looks like the standard plumbing too...) and 6 speed over in the states. Only mentions trans mounts mods (nothing about engine mounts. Also uses the Miata Turbo radiator. All seems to fit in there quite well.

If I find anything out - for sure I'll let you know more :)

Dave

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/p6233567.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/p6233568.jpg

[jewels]

another good find :)
it probably helps being a left hand drive cars with this conversion
i see the intake plenum would be tight to the master cylinders on a right hand drive car

[RetroMk2]

another good find :)
it probably helps being a left hand drive cars with this conversion
i see the intake plenum would be tight to the master cylinders on a right hand drive car

Hmmmm - noted.

Can these be relocated (ie further forward/lower/under dash)? I see the guy with the Mk1 above uses an RX3 master cylinder....

Dave.

[geoff]

wonder where that
master cylinder came
from mmmmmm.

[Dr Danger]

Looks a bit familiar Geffro...

Not sure if that's where I would locate the air filter on that last Mk2...

[RetroMk2]

Looks a bit familiar Geffro...

What is it?


Not sure if that's where I would locate the air filter on that last Mk2...

A mate and I were discussing that yesterday :) Factory flaw perhaps Mazda, or perhaps tuned to breathe hot air?

Tomorrow is the day for measurements - fingers crossed!

On a side not - any ideas as to whether O should be looking for a front bulge or rear bulge sump with the Mk2?

Cheers, Dave.

[Dr Danger]

Geoff sells those master cylinders. :)

Must be from California, tuned to breath hot air... I'd be either moving it or trying to get a nice big heat shield sandwiched in between.

Front bulge, all the steering gear is behind the crossmember. Unless you are converting to something else.

[RetroMk2]

Geoff - what are your thoughts on your master cylinders (ie what are they suited to, cost etc etc)? Feel free to PM me to keep it private if you like....

Thanks - at this stage i'll be using the stock steering setup as it had been newly reconditioned when i bought the car. Front bulge it is then!

[RetroMk2]

Ok - looks like the sump bulge is at the back. Guessing that this means the sump and oil-pick-up needs to be modified to suit....

What have other people done here? A cut & shuit on the existing sump? What about the pick-up? Going off the oil flow image - could this just be shortened to dump in the front (new) bulge in the sump (so long as it remains at teh same height as the old one...)?

Cheers, Dave.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/EngineLube.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/low99gt/Other%20Stuff/engine-front.jpg

[Dr Danger]

Well... depending on what the sump is like then SOME you can just flip around to get the bulge at the front. Unlikely perhaps, and then you have to modify the pickup still.

But yes, plenty of people have cut and shut a sump. Not sure if it is recomended or not though.

So this is the Mazda lump?

[RetroMk2]

Yup - is the BP engine out of the MX5 (the block/heads etc were also used in KF/KH laser tx3's/323's etc). Given that it was used in a Ford at some stage in the 90's gives me a little more heat off my back about putting a Jap motor into a Cortina.

I also found out that the 323/Protoge sump is the other way around and has been used in the past. Guessing that the oil pickup would still need modded (I am douting that a pick-up transplant from the other engine could be done...??).

[jewels]

retro
check here (http://www.cortina-mk1.com/brakes.php#tmaster) for info on the master cylinder...

[Dr Danger]

That would be the way to do it if you can find a front sump. Pickup still modded I assume.

Im sure you would be able to get some rocker covers that say 'FORD' to fit the motor. Nobody would even look twice if they said Ford.

Sump steel or alloy? Looks alloy? Might make it harder if you have to cut n' shut.

[RetroMk2]

That would be the way to do it if you can find a front sump. Pickup still modded I assume.

Im sure you would be able to get some rocker covers that say 'FORD' to fit the motor. Nobody would even look twice if they said Ford.

Sump steel or alloy? Looks alloy? Might make it harder if you have to cut n' shut.

I'll ask the dismantler guy tomorrow (seems to be a bit of a Mazda 'expert') if the pickups are interchangeable between the models - not getting my hope up though.

The idea was to fill all of the Mazda logos on the rocker cover and paint it for a 'generic' look.

I think that the sump is alloy - all the more reason to find a bolt on one. Again - i'll need to confirm this tomorrow, but doubt it'd be hard to find someone who can weld those.


retro
check here (http://www.cortina-mk1.com/brakes.php#tmaster) for info on the master cylinder...

Thanks :) That could compliment the brake upgrade I am researching

I found a four page article on the maroon Mk2 I posted up a pic of the engine bay yesterday - it is very low quality so I have not been able to read it all yet. Looks like minor changes to mounts only, a new g/box xmember and he mentioned something re the tunnel, which I cannot decipher yet :(

Cheers, Dave.

[RetroMk2]

Confirmation. I went down to see a Richard at MX5 Plus in Stafford, QLD yesterday - top bloke.

1.8 BP and 6 speed out of the NB MX5/Miata will go in with minor adjustments. Heater bubble needs to have a slight indentation, and trans tunnel needs to me 'worked out' a little. It was also noted that one should be looking for the engine with the coilpacks down the middle of the rocker cover rather than the models which have them mounted at the rear.

As for the sump and oil-pickup - he stated that the engine package could include the forward facing sump from the 323/Laser as well as the oil pickup from the FWD 323/Laser (bolt-on). Apparently there is high demand for the MX5 sump, so would be glad to keep the old one :)

New engine mounts need to be fabricated as the BP engine has 2 per side (ie would be a 2 into 1 type mount) and there is no gearbox crossmember - only a mount on the side of the box with 2 bolts going through it.

He quioted a reasonable price for engine/box/loom/ecu/gauges etc, so it is very much a case of getting the cash together to buy now.

The planning for this aspect of the car is now over - the Corty will have MX5 1800 and 6 speed in due course!!

A productive weekend.

Dave.

[geoff]

retro mk2.
all the info is
on our web page
(re m/cylinders)
or call me on
0412 006429

[geoff]

retro, just need
to know how many
kws or hp these mazda
engines make.from
memory the mx5 was
very dull ,no kick in the
pants so to speak of
i was less than impresed
with the performance as
the car in itself was fine.

[Dr Danger]

You're too used to turbo stuff Geffro. Gotta remember its NA. :)
MX5's are not about bulk hp...

[RetroMk2]

Yeah Geoff, I have considered that.

Let's call this a stepping stone to get the car engineered and registered. Then we'll see what happens - I am not looking for a HP monster.

The thing that I like about the MX5's is their very linear power delivery - all the way up through the rev range. I have had turbo cars for many years now, and think that this time it will be something different.

Idea for the next stage will be some kind of supercharging if I can get it to all fit in the engine bay........

Cheers, Dave.

[jewels]

there seems to be a lot of aftermarket support for these engines in the states even mazda themselves sell hi po parts

http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/

[RetroMk2]

Hi Guys.

Just doing a bit more research on the diff conversion I am looking at performing.

I guess the question is, if anyone knows, what is the width of the diff housing from the inside of the backing plate to the same on the other end?

I have a rough estimate from another site at 1245mm, but will not take that for granted.

I'd measure it myself, but am away for work at the moment.

Cheers - hope you can help.

Dave!

[Dr Danger]

Inside the backing plate?

A Mk1 Cortina diff is exactly 52 inches from drum face to drum face if that helps?? Mk2 may be different. Hahaha, geddit?

[RetroMk2]

Goddit :)

Basically I am looking for the width from/to where the back plate bolts to the housing (flange??)........

I have found two housings (plus axles/drums etc) - one 49" and the other 51" (minus drums) (not ford) that I am considering - so give me my 5x114.3 PCD....

If I can use one of them, and not have to get them shortened - it could be a very good thing for the progress of the Corty (ie will be able to finish the rear end/suspension).

Cheers, David.

[Dr Danger]

Yep, flange.

Hilux diff's?

The 49 inch housing you might get away with if you want to put some different wheels on it (order the wheels in different offset).
Might not have to shorten housing and axles that way?

Edit: Hang on, how come you are worried about the diff that you need/want to upgrade it? The original is reasonably solid unless you are doing silly things with it.

[RetroMk2]

Yeah - the wheels I am looking (Weld xxx) at can be ordered in a multitude of back spaces.

The housing is from a Hiace (same centre as hilux).

[dougie77]

any progress on the engine fitup....did it fit?